Which caffeine shampoo do you currently suggest?

Hi Joevit.

Which brand caffeine shampoo are you using?

You use topical or shampoo coffeine? And in what consentration?

At some point – yes.

Hey Bryan,

Thanks for reaching out. It seems like caffeine and minoxidil might have overlapping mechanisms, but to my knowledge, there’s no data suggesting that the two counteract one another. Would you mind passing along your resources here? I’m happy to take a look.

Best,
Rob

Thanks for the informative article.

I’m currently using Alpecin caffeine shampoo for morning & night showers + Rogaine 5% minoxidil after both showers. As i’ve just started, it’s encouraging after reading your article. But i’ve read somewhere the both products dont complement & in fact counteract each other. Appreciate your view on this. Cheers.

Hey Mahmoud,

Thanks for the kind words! To answer your question – propylene glycol can sometimes irritate the scalp skin of certain individuals. In fact, propylene glycol is one of the most commonly used carrier agents for minoxidil, which can cause skin irritation in 2-7% of people. But interestingly, one study found that up to 80% of topical minoxidil’s side effects didn’t come from the minoxidil itself, but rather, the propylene glycol – and that by switching to a different carrier agent, these side effects dissipated.

As far as systemic absorption, this is a possibility with any homemade topical. To maximize skin penetration while minimizing systemic absorption, you really need something that is formulated with chitosans, liposomes, or even cyclodextrins. That requires equipment that isn’t really available to consumers for home use.

It’s also worth mentioning that PEG-40 hydrogenated castor oil is both propylene glycol + castor oil. It is a common ingredient in cosmetics and has great skin penetrative properties (to my knowledge). For the overwhelming majority of people, propylene glycol isn’t problematic. So I’d give it a go and see how things work out! If you end up with skin irritation, there are dozens of other carrier agents from which to choose.

Best,
Rob

Hey Eric,

Thanks for your comment. We’ve actually had a discussion about this inside our membership community forums. The gist is that bee venom therapy seems to modulate immunoresponsiveness (in a positive way) for certain autoimmune- / allergen-related conditions. For androgenic alopecia, there’s preliminary evidence that immunosuppressive drugs (like cyclosporine-A) might be hugely beneficial as adjunct therapies. So, there’s certainly a case to be made for therapies like this. However, the evidence (so far) seems to only show benefit for non-androgenic forms of hair loss like alopecia areata.

Here’s a quote from one of my responses in the forums. Keep me posted with your experiment! I’m looking forward to your results and wish you the best of luck with everything.

—

Exploring bee venom will be better served as an article, as there are a lot of case-specific boxes to check before someone is a good fit to even consider it as an intervention. For example, bee venom has 5-alpha reductase inhibiting properties (same as the study you linked in the first comment). So, its use as a topical may translate to improvements DHT-mediated hair follicle miniaturization (i.e., AGA) seen in male and female pattern hair loss. At the same time, there are case reports of diffuse hair loss following a beehive attack on an otherwise healthy adult woman.

However, in the latter case, the attack was so severe that the woman was hospitalized for five days, and the woman’s sister (also attacked) died from anaphylactic shock.

Long-story short: while there are mechanisms by which too much bee venom can contribute to hair thinning via the injection of “histamine, mast cell degranulating peptide, melittin, phospholipase A,, hyaluronidase and acid phosphatase”, I’m not really sure that case is a reasonable defense against trying bee venom therapies in a controlled setting.

After all, there are case reports of bee venom therapy improving alopecia areata, possibly through immune reprogramming / modulation. And bee venom therapies have been used in the past to help people overcome, ironically, bee allergies.

It’s worth noting that all of these studies are published in relatively lower impact factor journals. That’s not to dismiss their findings, but more so to say that both the quantity and quality of evidence on bee venom for hair growth is still pretty low.

I’m curious: where are you sourcing your bee venom? On a personal note, I almost tried a similar therapy back in early 2012 – but with topical bee venom + propolis as a potential replacement for topical minoxidil (of which I ended up dropping later that year anyway). I couldn’t find a reliable provider for either product, and that in combination with concerns over applying venom to my head each day eventually led to my discouragement of trying it at all.

Legally speaking, we all have to protect ourselves here and say that you should consult a doctor before trying this, and that the evidence supporting bee venom + microneedling as a hair growth treatment is essentially non-existent. At the same time, if you happened to continue experiencing zero side effects from applying it to your body scalp, and you do decide to try it on the scalp, we’d all be intensely curious to hear how it goes. I’m sorry for the vagueness of that answer.

I just started with 2x daily topical honey bee venom along with weekly 1.5mm micro-needling using a Dr. Pen. (FYI bee’s are not harmed in extraction…they just sting a glass collection plate and they do NOT die after.)

I also do scalp massages as well as use good natural based shampoos with keto and coal tar along with a healthy diet rich in good fats and nutrients. I see these as basic preventatives and not sole “cures”.

I chose to start with bee venom because I knew from back in the day when I was a bee removal expert I learned that bee stings had therapeutic value. The FDA has even cleared bee venom injections to treat allergies to bees and many in the pharma world consider venom from many different sources to be gold mines for future drug development.

Other research has shown bee venom to aid in certain chronic inflammatory conditions like Rheumatoid Arthritis and others…although I haven’t looked myself at any hard data on that.

I was curious if any studies had been done on bee venom and hair loss…especially since the venom is recognized as a treatment useful for inflammation…plus it came as an intuitive hunch and felt worth looking into.

I found this study here which was quite compelling – https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bpb/39/6/39_b16-00158/_html/-char/en#:~:text=Importantly%2C%20we%20found%20that%20bee,reductase%20receptors%2C%20and%20growth%20factors.

I’m curious if you have heard of this study or if you have any thoughts on it?

Note: They studied mice as well as a culture of Human Derma Papilla Cells. They found that the venom applied topically induced a variety of growth factors as well as outperformed Minox. It also was a potent 5AR inhibitor.

This was enough validation for me to experiment with and it doesn’t carry any known risks other than some redness (or if you’re allergic). My thoughts are to use as an alternative to Minox along with the weekly 1.5mm needling and scalp massages and hope to benefits from the 5AR inhibiting as well. I’ve decided to give it a 90-120 day personal trial.

If you google bee venom ointment you can find some if you dig around. I found a product called Venex that’s a topical lotion with bee venom as primary ingredient along with black pepper oil. It burns on contact but for me not that bad at all compared to the micro-needles. The burning for me dissipates within 5 to 10 minutes or less.

Keep up the great work and I appreciate all your articles! I also enjoyed your paper outlining your hair loss theory that goes beyond DHT alone. It makes total sense to me.

As far as I’m concerned, your website, Rob, is one of the most reliable hair information communities. Your articles are my first resort when researching hair topics. Everything is evidence-based and unbiased.

I’m considering a topical that contains some good ingredients, like caffeine, saw palmetto, ginkgo pilopa and green tea. But, following water, the second and third ingredients in the list are propylene glycol and PEG-40 hydrogenated castor oil. As for the former, can it irritate the scalp or be a cause of concern? Does it enhance the other ingredients penetration to the point that they reach the blood and consequently cause systemic side effects?

I read that PEG-40 hydrogenated castor oil is too large to penetrate the skin and forms a film on the surface. So can it “clog” the scalp pores or something?

Thanks, Rob.